Curse

Tenebrae · Aug 07, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Eh, actually, it's not that much of a buff. That 3% sac does quite a bit, my heroes are killing a lot faster but they're having trouble staying alive, in places that they should be getting little-no damage. It'd be great on a human necro, but heroes that redline and are always casting, it's not worth the +2 death and SR.

Signed to revert for the bolded part , masochism was fine.

Xenomortis · Aug 07, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Well that sort of skill is somewhat hilarious. It stacks with AotL for 11 level 21 minions or can add to the the damage from OoU if your monks don't mind the sacrifice.

Shame about losing the old functionality though. The energy gain on sacrifice was invaluable for sac heavy spam builds and the like - namely orders. I can run OotV while maintaining 3 enchantments as a human without Masochism no problem, but I doubt a hero can manage it with only one maintained enchantment now.

Sniper22 · Aug 07, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Lol are you really having energy problems with orders? Don't you remember when necros had to keep up both order of the vampire and order of pain up at the same time in b/p groups? Bip spam is harder now? Cmon it costs 5 energy. Don't for get a crap load of stuff dies in pve too for soul reaping. Here's some theoretical mathway. Let's say you have 13 soul reaping and you get your 3 deaths every 15 seconds. Thats 39 energy total or 2.6 energy per sec. You also naturally gain 1.33 energy per sec making that a total of about 4 energy per second. That is plenty of energy to cast one orders spell once every 6 seconds while using other support skills. Now maybe you'll have a little bit less energy because you put points in different atts or used different runes. I'd recommend both superior blood and soul reaping runes with prot spirit for some defense to help reduce the amount of hp you sac. You also have SoLS to help with energy and should have an energy pool around 50 that can be quickly regain between battles. Necros didn't have problems after the soul reaping nerf and before masochism. Bip also used to cost 5 energy and there were no problems with that either.

I believe in urgoz when I ran orders before masochism, I had a bar something like this. [Order of Pain][Blood Renewal][Aegis][Extinguish][Protective Spirit][Necrotic Traversal][Well of Blood][Rebirth]. There was plenty of extra dmg and party support to go around with the b/p team, giving a lot of physical dmg support. If you're also looking for physical dmg support, dont forget barbs and mark of pain.

Not quite exactly sure why anet wanted to change this skill, but at least its interesting now. Running up to 11 lvl 20+ minions or so can be nice. Makes them a little less squishy too.

BTW Don't forget vampiric horrors that will easily manage that 3% sac ^^

Racthoh · Aug 07, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

Eh, actually, it's not that much of a buff. That 3% sac does quite a bit, my heroes are killing a lot faster but they're having trouble staying alive, in places that they should be getting little-no damage. It'd be great on a human necro, but heroes that redline and are always casting, it's not worth the +2 death and SR.

It should be more than manageable, even for a hero. Consider that an orders hero is casting Order of Pain and Dark Fury as frequently as they can (every 7~ seconds), consuming 17% health with each cast. At a 3% sacrifice you'll need to be casting a spell roughly every second to amount the same health loss as an orders build.

Puebert · Aug 07, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckboy

i voted for no cos this new version imo is more useful.

My suggestion is to revert the old function and add the new one to a different skill, so that both functions exist.

Killamus · Aug 08, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It should be more than manageable, even for a hero. Consider that an orders hero is casting Order of Pain and Dark Fury as frequently as they can (every 7~ seconds), consuming 17% health with each cast. At a 3% sacrifice you'll need to be casting a spell roughly every second to amount the same health loss as an orders build.

That's also one hero, not 3. And since all but one or two spells that regular discordway uses are <= 1s casts, it pretty much goes by itself. This doesn't include regular sac for the curses necro, for stuff like Meekness, who would still want +2 SR (As SR rocks) and +2 death for stronger minions and stronger discord. Everyone knows heroes are stupid, they continue to cast spells until they're out of energy (And necro heroes rarely are) so they're sacing health every time.

I also don't keep my SR at 12+ on my heroes (Except for 1) so they're usually sac'ing 4, not 3% health.

snaek · Aug 08, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniper22

Don't you remember when necros had to keep up both order of the vampire and order of pain up at the same time in b/p groups?

don't you remember when the mm had 20+ minions and you got a crap ton energy back from non-capped soul reaping? man i miss those days .___.

refer · Aug 08, 2009, 06:01 AM // 06:01

hmmmmmmm. while everybody looks at going to level 19 death magic with this, I'll just take advantage of being able to go 14+2 instead of using a rune which takes away HP from now on.

HawkofStorms · Aug 08, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

hmmmmmmm. while everybody looks at going to level 19 death magic with this, I'll just take advantage of being able to go 14+2 instead of using a rune which takes away HP from now on.

But then Blood of the Master will just cause you to sac more health.

refer · Aug 08, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

But then Blood of the Master will just cause you to sac more health.

Oh right... that sucks. But I'm gonna test it out anyways! Hopefully I will get a monk who sees what I'm doing.

Public Hero · Aug 22, 2009, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

Masochism was recently changed to be a Soul Reaping/Death Magic copy of Awaken the Blood. It used to read: "For 30 seconds, you gain 1...4 Energy whenever you sacrifice Health."

This skill was a staple skill for Orders and Bips, but now has a totally different purpose.

My suggestion is to revert this skill and give it's current functionality to a different skill. If necessary, move a Death Magic skill into Soul Reaping if Foul Feast and Hexer's Vigor are really important.

Masochism was un-needed, Soul Reaping supplies orders.
And here we have a tribute to cultists fervor, except without the spell bug.
I can now hit out the Equivalent of RoJ's damage in 2 seconds flat with a N/A Build i made for pve, but with a down side of sacrifice, which only really add's up to 35% of your health bar in loss.
I would rather have Cultists fervor back, and masochism reverted in this case.

Mr Emu · Aug 22, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

i was just thinking about this, and having both functionalities present basically turns all 5 energy spells into 1 energy spells at an appropriate SR spec, which means you can be permanently casting interspersed with 10e skills and never even dip into your energy pool (ps, i voted 4 u!)

Lishy · Aug 22, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Wait. Why do you need masochism reverted? Soul Reaping is not enough energy?
I guess other people's opinions will differ. But I like the new masochism much better. Though could be nice to see the skills co-exist.

/signed for making another skill into old-masochism
/notsigned for reverting

At least necros now know how Dervish enchantment jugglers felt

Regulus X · Aug 25, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Bend over and grab ya'lls knees each & every update cuz Anet ain't here to please ya'll. They ain't makin' that dough monthly, so wtf do they even care about? NOTHING, that's what..

Truth Hurts... doesn't it?

Magragoc · Aug 26, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I liked the old Masochism for niche builds, it was fun to play with. I think the way to go would be to apply the new functionality to something like Verata's Sacrifice, which is already Minion-themed, but terrible.